Polygamy is Supported in the Bible

In fact, in the Bible, Abraham had at least three wives, Jacob had at least four wives, and Moses had at least two. David had his wives taken from him by God through Nathan due to infidelity with a married woman. Jesus had a parable referring to polygamy and called the five of ten, who actually went to wed the groom, wise. He was referring to all men and women in the last days, but could have referred to orphans or princes(instead of virgins)and to a king(instead of bridegroom).

The (so called) New Hope

The HOPE Organization is a non-profit group dedicated to assisting survivors of abuse within polygamous relationships on their courageous journey to personal freedom.

HOPE is a St. George, Utah based 501(c)(3) charity providing assistance to individuals and families to safely transition from a polygamous lifestyle into mainstream society.

HOPE's purpose is to offer support, protection, assistance, choices, opportunities and hope for the women, children, families and young adults (both male and female) who have been kicked out or have chosen to leave this culture. Sadly, too many women and children live under immense control, oppression and fear of eternal damnation, and they are caught in the cycle of abuse without a choice or a voice . . . We want to empower them!

Laws against these crimes are based in religion, which violates the separation of church and state. They are un-American, as they attempt to homogenize the country to a certain group's idea of morality, and that they create an oppressive society, restricting personal freedoms without justification. They teach irresponsibility, by not letting people deal with the natural consequences of their actions, but rather penalizing them whether or not their actions harmed anyone else.
Catching the "criminals" involved is an expensive affair. Victimless crimes draw manpower and funds away from crimes that do hurt innocent parties, and enforcement of the laws is not consistent enough to be an effective deterrent. I argue that actions to help people deal with problems caused by these illegal activities are effectively prevented by their criminalization -- for example, no one could be helped about their drinking problems during Prohibition. Additionally, he details how laws against victimless crimes paved the way for organized crime. from Wikipedia: Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country by Peter McWilliams

Muhammad was Christian

I don't know who says Muhammad was illiterate. I am not excusing Islam as it is written in the Koran. I just know that Muhammad was learned in Christianity. His successors were not Christians even though he taught about Jesus. I believe they were blood hungry after Muhammad died. The so-called Christians back then were not kind to these people and they needed a leader. Muslims were defended back then, God saw they were humble and prayerful. I am Mormon. I love Christ. Prayer and humility and faith in Christ are the power in the Holy Ghost.

The Ongoing Cases Against FLDS by Authorities

I say when you excuse Texas Judge Walther for all of the false righteousness and indignation toward a religious organization with no care for the Constitution, I am disappointed. Don't you know that your rights are at risk when others' are taken. Self righteousness has too much power here. These are God-fearing, praying and honest people. I know, I was one of them long ago. There is no evil intent in their hearts.
The way the raids were handled, was by itself, criminal. YFZ Ranch was designed as a gated community with a religious effort. It was an early Mormon plan since Joseph Smith Jr. made it an important goal. There was no one person who ran every household.
All evidence should be returned and all efforts while using the evidences stolen by authorities legally cannot be used. The search warrant was not legal that day of the raid.

My Discussion With A couple of Commenters on a news article

IMoronMoronI: From the accounts that I have read, stealing from the government is part of the culture of the people of Hildale. A man that has one wife recognized by the government and than other spiritual wives not recognized by the government, receiving welfare as "single mothers" is fraudulent, dishonest and immoral. Normal people not of that culture have a hard time believing that if they are thieving liars without conviction on one hand, what prevents them from being thieving liars on the other? The most bothersome thing to me is that somehow their religious views justify this behavior. No wonder so many people are turned off against religion! Who wants to go to heaven, if heaven is filled with the same kind of lying cheaters that make hell on earth?

I replied: You read from misinformed hearsay from prejudiced people then. I will tell you that there is very little, if any fraud. These people are not allowed to use the tax write-offs and other sneaky legal ways that you or I would be able to use, to help them. You see, we can use, for example, up to 4 children as a write-off. But what if there were 18 children? I think that if they are not permitted to use the same methods that you or I would use to supplement their livelihood, then why not use an unusually available legal method then? You think like a Collective Moralist and not as an open minded, spiritual individual. Don't talk to me about how laws are to be followed, when those who breach it in the government, like Presidents Obama and George Bush who wanted to change the Constitution to their political benefit.

I replied to mormonssuck: You have no idea how honest and honorable these service-men and women are. How sad that they are being politically targeted.

IMoronMoronI: Honest? Honorable? You're one of them, right? So tell me, how can a religion esteem themselves so highly and everyone outside of their religion so low? To make matters worse and more unbelievable is that this religion is ripping us, "low" unbelieving people, off! I don't like using the word cult, because I'm not sure of a religion that isn't a cult, but this religion really makes religion look bad. Underage marriage, multiple spiritual wives adds up to perversion. Not finishing their homes in some kind of scheme to avoid taxes, welfare fraud adds up to greed and thievery. Kicking out boys for wanting to date girls, adds up to heartless and cruel.
Honest and honorable you say! Hm-mm! I can only go by outward appearance, but God is going to judge the heart.

I Replied: I am not one of "them." I am sad to report that I don't measure-up like you don't measure-up to them. You see, We are on the outside looking in. The only difference between us is that I know who God is, and how to become like him. You do not, my friend. These godly prayerful people are persecuted and prosecuted for their beliefs and those bureaucrats have no idea of Christianity, who seek to destroy any sign of it, are setting the area on fire by themselves.

I replied: All I know is the oil that the virgins carried that were able to see the bridegroom was a reference to the "Spirit of God". You can't have it and still be able to accuse these good people of evils.
You think that the government can't be the enemy?
You think you know the good book enough to tell me that the government has no evil intent toward the Godly?
You didn't read the Book of Daniel well enough.

IMoronMoronI: First off, God's Word says that those who do good need not fear the government.
Second, do tell-you know how to be like Him and you know HIM and you believe that I do not. Explain to me what your extraordinary discernment, or perhaps prophetic bussom burnings are telling you. How are you going to become like Him and what does that mean? And what disqualifies me from becoming like Him?

BTW, they are persecuted and prosecuted for their organized crime. The government carries not it's sword in vain.

IMoronMoronI: Of course I think the government can be the enemy. In fact in Acts we are asked, "shall I obey God rather than man?" and He went on to prove, even unto death that he would obey God. But the evils that come out of Hildale are not hidden under a rock. They are set out before us and every normal person knows that their dealings are dishonest, and that is their own doing and not our poor judgment. I'm sure there are some good people that that are ignorant to the corruption, God bless them.
I'm sure you are familiar with this text but I want to send--

IMoronMoronI: for any religious person that has overlooked it. Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is what the BOM has done and if there was an angel of light that bore testimony to the BOM in addition to what God had already spoken Paul says let them be accursed.

Much more could be said, for now i will say that there is a better way. Start at the beginning, at the historical Word of God. Take a look at all of the artifacts found and being found that give support. Once you have gained trust in the entire Word, then proceed to newer works and see if they harmonize.

I replied: I wish you your happy night. I also wish you could try to pray and not use the Bible as a beginning and end to God's dealings with man. As far as the Book of Revelations goes, could you tell me if Paul was the last to write or was John? Revelations was written by John, but the compilers may not know who finished their writings last. What I am saying is that the reference was to his revelation and not to the Bible. You have been duped by your preacher. God will always inspire man as long as he lives, and is receptive to His Spirit.

My response to a news article about Warren Jeffs

Warren is a hot political potato. Attorney Generals are re-elected on such controversial type pawns. He means little more to them. Jeffs has only done what his predecessors have done since Joseph Smith Jr. was alive.

LDS leadership involvement in the persecution of FLDS.

Due to the following document that was issued by the church leaders, the FLDS were targeted by Mormons who were officials in Utah and Arizona. It also gave them the go-ahead to offer up unsolicited help to a Texas court with propaganda and accusations made and provided by hate-filled apostates who are not afraid to lie and create stories. There were no real facts for true litigation presented to multiple state and federal authorities by Mark Shurtleff. This seems like a good and wholesome document. The bold words are the part that gives license to pursue them. The current mainstream church members are informed and encouraged to deem polygyny as infidelity and immoral in this life.

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

This feels intimidating to the regular plural marriage apologist(anyone who trusts the 132nd section of the Doctrine and Covenants to still apply to God's plan ).

It reminds me of the 11th article of the LDS faith. Maybe the one who wrote the proclamation was influenced by someone other than the sweet spirit of God.

Article of faith # 11: We claim the privilege of worshipping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Persecution of polygyny continues...

Jedediah M. Grant:

What does old Celsus say, who was a physician in the first century, whose medical works are esteemed very highly at the present time. His works on theology were burned with fire by the Catholics, they were so shocked at what they called their impiety Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, "The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him." After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master. For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second Epistle, "Unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth," Again, he says, "Having many things to write unto you (or communicate), I would not, write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you; and speak face to face, that our joy may be full." Again—"The children of thy elect sister greet thee." This ancient philosopher says they were both John's wives. Paul says, "Mine answer to them that do examine me is this:—.

Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas." He, according to Celsus, had a numerous train of wives.

The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons."

JEDEDIAH M. GRANT, DELIVERED IN THE TABERNACLE, GREAT SALT LAKE CITY, AUG. 7, 1853.